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01/04/2012

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unkleE

I may be a heretic, but I must confess I don't think this is a good motivation for mission, unless it is part of a conviction of the Holy Spirit. I do not personally subscribe to the theology that says those who don't hear about Jesus are inevitably lost, and I don't think that emotional anguish on its own is helpful, but more likely to lead to excesses. I think God created this universe and all the people, and I think in the end he carries the responsibility for the consequences for that, and I don't. In the end I carry the responsibility for what I do and don't do, and whether that is in accordance with God's call on my life. Of course, that is what I think is true for me, and I don't necessarily think it was wrong for Amy to feel this way.

I think we should be motivated by love of God, love for people and our desire to obey Jesus.

Trying

UncleE, in part I agree with you, definitely God has it better under control than I ever could! However, I see people "losing it" all around me...'Here I am Lord, send ME'.

Chris Jefferies

I think Felicity has given us a post that's hard to reply to. Maybe that's why I'm only the third brave/foolish person to try!

I agree with unkleE and Trying - you are surely both right.

The dream is very powerful but there's a danger some readers will either reject it or take a dramatic guilt trip. Neither reaction is helpful, there must be a better way to go.

Action as a result of guilt may be better than inaction as a result of rejection. But guilt is not the best motivation for action. Action can only rightly come from being called.

I'm not suggesting we should watch people go to their doom without compassion. But nor should we panic and rush about with sandwich boards saying 'The End is Nigh!' We need to engage the blind long before they get anywhere near the precipice (and the deaf and hungry and downheartened and sick and enslaved and imprisoned too).

But how to do that? We don't need to be attractional but we do need to be attractive. We can't make people listen but we do need to be worth listening to.

What we really need is authority, and that doesn't come from position or training or our own cleverness or from correct doctrine or from a quality performance. Where does authority come from? It comes from knowing the Author.

We need to be leaky people, with Jesus seeping out of every pore of our being. Then the blind will see and step away from the edge because they will say, 'Jesus is in this place and in these people'.

Felicity Dale

I'm interested that all of you have picked up on my problem with this kind of motivation. Basically the underlying message here is: "All these people are going to hell. You aren't doing enough about it. You are guilty!" A motivation of guilt is not the best. Paul could say, "the love of Christ constrains me."

Having said that, people that were led to the Lord when I had that kind of "notch in the belt" motivation, are still going on with Him. God's thoughts are so much higher than ours.

Paul Maxim

I cannot figure out God's big plan for saving people.....but I do not see the idea of a specific call to 'go to the mission field' in the Word. If some one can help me w/ this I would appreciate it. I do see the command to "go" however..... Maybe the size and location He sends us to is dependent upon our faithfulness up to this point... Ex the parables of the lord giving his servants talents to invest....

Cindy Skillman

Paul also said that he was pleased to see the Gospel proclaimed, whatever the motivation (presumably as long as it was proclaimed accurately!) This is a very good point. God will work with what He's got, and as He loves us, I'm sure that He's pleased when His children desire to help one another.

But I hate this story. (And that's not a word I often use.) It implies that all we need to do is rush to the edge and turn people away and they will be turned. Maybe in Amy's situation, but that's absolutely not the case where I'm planted. Do what we may, most of these hapless wanderers are only annoyed by a direct proclamation of the Gospel.

What's more, it paints a horrible picture of our Father, that He doesn't care enough to do anything about all these innocents falling willy-nilly over the edge, through no fault of their own. I don't believe that God will allow anyone to slip through the cracks in this way. He is just and merciful and more importantly, He is LOVE. And He loves them more (not less) than we do.

Cindy Skillman

Yes, we do need to proclaim the Gospel to the dying as well as to one another. But we need to do it in cooperation with God, not independently of Him because we see the need that He (apparently) doesn't care about. With Him in the lead, good things happen. On our own? We fail.

Janet Maxim

The story is good in picturing the awful end of those who are blind and lost, so we don't avoid thinking about it. But what can we do? Sow the seed abundantly, as the farmer does, knowing that not all will fall on good soil. I sure have seen that unless the Holy Spirit prepares the heart I can't force or argue or chide someone into the kingdom - but maybe my words or actions will soften that heart. And when He does draw them, it's gonna happen whether I participate or not. People will usually let you know how willing they are to listen, and we should be listening closely enough to hear that. This implies that we are intentionally cultivating all our natural relationships, listening well and "ready to make a defense for the hope that is in us". Sharing my great hope is the way I look at it!

But it's a tension between His work and ours, and I for one am still learning!

Janet Maxim

I just read this blog http://crossroadjunction.com/2012/01/03/planting-churches/
and this quote clarifies what I was trying to say above:
"So the sole issue for me was simply being receptive to the Lord’s timing, by acting only when and how He says."

Yep, that's the issue.

Felicity Dale

This is a fascinating discussion, and many thanks to all of you who are contributing. Cindy, your passage about Paul being pleased that the Gospel is proclaimed is very relevant here.

Paul, I agree that all are called to go, to be witnesses. Not all are called to cross-cultural missions.

One of the things that always strikes me when I see the IMB video "Like a Mighty Wave" (go to www.imb.org and search for the title under videos) is that one of the key things we see in a multiplicative move of God is "abundant Gospel sowing." We here in the West have been part of a Christian culture for so long that we take it for granted that most people have heard the Gospel. So we relax when it comes to proclaiming Jesus. That's certainly not true in India where this story takes place, and will become increasingly true in this country as we become more post-Christian. But as Janet points out, we need to respond to the Holy Spirit.

Jim

My sense is that Carmichael's dream captures an anguish that is closer to that of the Father, Son and Spirit than we recognize and are willing to yield to. Isn't it also easy to see that the church in its indifference and self absorption, as it's depicted in the dream, is an apt portrait? I don't see guilt-mongering here (i.e. "guilt" in the sense coined by contemporary psychology as self-hate), but I see an awareness demonstrated in the dream, that there is an accountability before God for His people to be proclaimers (1 Peter 2:9) -- and glad proclaimers! Paul seemed to be aware of a judicial accountability upon him as a sentry on the wall, expressed in Acts 20:26-27 and 18:6, alluding likely to Ezekiel 33. Might the Spirit of Christ in us be much more "desperate" for the lost than we are sensitive to?

Felicity Dale

Jim, I agree. The picture of the church is a scarily accurate one. And I'm sure Amy's motivation in writing this was to draw attention to the impotent state of the church as regards to mission. We are no different now. To me the big question is, are we motivated to mission by the thought of people going to hell, or are we to be motivated by the Father's heart of love towards to the lost? Does it matter?

Paul Maxim

I don't think it matters to the folks who are being saved.

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Felicity Dale

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